THE VIEW FROM BEHIND THE COUNTER
By: Alan Williams
Store Manager: Game Universe, Milwaukee, WI
Selling 4e.
Oh man. If anything is dominating the RPG conversation at the shop lately, it's the 4th Edition of Dungeons and Dragons.
4e.
Even the mention of it can start a rather...intense discussion at our shop. It really seems to be a "love it or hate it" kind of thing.
I really don't get it.
To be fair, it's a bigger change that some people are willing to talk about. There are some pretty basic core mechanics that have been changed. Character advancement is an entirely different beast. Long time races have been removed and new ones have been added.
And what the heck is a Warlord?
It's all fair commentary. I mean, think about 3e for a moment. (Another love it or hate it sort of thing) Whatever you think about 3e and d20, you can't argue that it left it's huge mark on the industry as a whole. But do you remember when it was first released?
2e fan weren't going to touch it. There were too many 2e books, they were too deeply invested in "their" D&D to even look at this new game. How could WOTC even BEGIN to think they could match the same library of 2e?
Rules changes? GAH! No THAC0? What was with the standardized stat bonuses? No more 18/63 Strength?
Any of this starting to sound familiar?
There are a few things that I always try to keep in mind when talking about 4e.
-This is now D&D
Like it or not, this is what D&D now is. It's what's going to be developed and supported from here on out. When so many folks were nervous about how well 3e would be supported, WOTC stepped up an aggressive release schedule that almost became overwhelming. I'm pretty sure history will repeat itself here. We've already seen some really fantastic support material from WOTC and reading the release schedule has me really excited. And don't forget, the third party material arrives in a matter of weeks!
-It's not your Daddy's D&D...but it is
While it's true that this version of D&D borrows much from MMORGPs, it's still D&D. Folks, D&D is a roleplaying game, the feel and play of the game depends largely on what the DM and players make of it. Rules should never get in the way of a good game or story, and most folks who play are going to pick up on that really quick. Since the rules are so familiar with d20 players it shouldn't take them long at all to get right into things.
New players will find things set up on a decent learning curve. Beginning characters start with exciting and dynamic options that become more compelling as you learn and grow. Rather than being "simplified" or as I've heard "dumbed down", I think that it's become a more friendly entry-level game. Newcomers to the hobby can pick up a PHB and quickly make new characters, with more choices than ever before.
We're still going to thrill at the sight of a 20 coming up on an attack roll and groan when the DM chuckles from behind his screen. It's still D&D.
-Your 3e books didn't burst into flames
Like your 3e books? Keep using 'em! Heck, keep playing your 3e game. Nothing you enjoy was taken away or invalidated by the release of 4e. Not only are there hundreds of books and accessories to use, but one publisher has gone so far as to continue their support for 3e and d20. So yes, new material will be printed for your system of choice. (And I'm sure that your FLGS will be more than happy to sell your their 3e material!)
Are there things I don't like about 4e? Well, there are some things I have some questions about, but I'd don't think there's anything I "hate" about it. Like all revisions of existing products, writers and developers have to make choices. Given how extensively this edition has been playtested you have to think there's been a reason for the changes, eh? I think it's another soid option in an already rich and varied market. Looking at some of the future plans for the line, I feel more and more gamers are going to get into this edition and find they like it after all.
If not? Well...GURPS 4e is a great system!
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d20+1
I think the main issue people have with 4th Edition is that "they" (Wizards) are making a new editionwhen the previous was working right well just to make you buy the core books and the one from your settings YET AGAIN (3E, 3.5...) as small or big, but deep enough changes are being introduced in the rules so quite a part of the previous material becomes incompatible.
This time the whole magic system, for example, has changed. It means that if I want to play the Heroes of the Lance in 4E I not only need the Player, DM and Monster guide, I will have to buy YET AGAIN the specific sourcebook about the place. Yes, I can make the stats again. But this time it's not one 3-3.5 small tinkering ehre and there. It's a whole rewriting of each level, spell, saving throw and weapon. Even hps follow a slightly but deep deviant route. And in Dragonlace you at least have (depending on the age you play) little to worry about healing clerics. An AD&D one has as little to do to a 3rd edition one, as a 3rd has to do with a 4E.
Yes, the market. Fresh blood or staignation. It sounds like too much a vampiric metaphor, hmm?
May your steps drive you through the roads of Fantasy and Love KalEl el Vigilante - Marcos Muñoz
Each and everytime we see a
Each and everytime we see a system change or "improvement" we see the customer base lurch. So many claim they won't support the new system, and yet, it still sells.
I don't think anyone is wrong with their attitude. If they don't like it, they don't have to play it. I think the attitude that I just don't understand or appreciate is the one that just derides the system or calls it "wrong" without ever giving it a chance. We started a 4e game just to get some "hands on" experience with it to better chat with customers. As I said, there are some things that I question, but I still appreciate the game for what it is: D&D.
Gamers are a passionate lot. They are always going to have their systems of choice, their perferred games and themes they will never touch. To me it seems that 4e is falling into a bunch of negitive categories before getting it's due.
"Sometimes I almost feel just like a human being" -- Elvis Costello
Strong reactions with a past
Ah! But the thing is it's not a new game. That would be fair competition. It's a game that, by existing, wipes out most chances the previous game (edition) will be supported. Yes, d20 goes on: but not 3E Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Ravenloft, Dragonlance...
The strong reaction is not to a new game that allows to play in those settings under new rules, but to new rules that halt the official developing of the previous ones. Imagine that just because somebody published a d20 Vampire edition Runequest was discontinued.
Plus, a lot of effort will be addressed to tell us how to do the same we knew (dragons, cities, classes, races... 4E books will no doubt appear on those... again). Imagine all that effort focused towards core roleplaying, not ruleplaying?
4E in itself is not worse or better than 3E, MEGS, Rolemaster or Elric. But it appears, develops and, some strong part of the gaming community things, is knowingfully and willingfully developed in a context of self-retconning made for pure or mainly economical reasons. And again: this is an industry. But so blatanly remembering the base it is so erases some of the image that it is also entertainment.
May your steps drive you through the roads of Fantasy and Love KalEl el Vigilante - Marcos Muñoz
I suppose why I don't
I suppose why I don't *quite* argee with that is that nothing that's been published previously is "broken". My 3e books continue to function just as they did when they were first published. The hundreds of books for the various settings seem to function the same way. Not to mention that third-party publishing continues for 3e, and probably will for some time to come.
I don't have any problem with people who don't like the system or game. My only concern are those who dismiss it out of hand without actually giving it a chance. If you have a game that works for you, that's fabulous! I hope everyone out there can find the same.
"Sometimes I almost feel just like a human being" -- Elvis Costello
Thanks For This
This is one of the more intelligent approaches to 4E I have read and I thank you for posting it. I think that more people should look at it this way. What it really comes down to is "Stop complaining and go play YOUR game...and support your local gaming and hobby stores."
---D!
The Price Argument
I am not going to rehqash the 4th ed. arguments,but I do want to say a word about the idea that WOTC is milking us for cash. Qell, of course they are! They are trying to make money --- plain and simple. However, let's stop for a sec for a reality check and compare the cost of your hobby to other popular hobbies. I have a friend who is an avid golfer. He pays $30 - 50$ a week (sometimes twice a week) in green fees and cart rentals. He also spend hundreds of dollars on clubs and supplies. Another friend is into remote control planes -- don't even get me started on what those things can cost. Even my wife's scrapbooking costs me 30 or 40 bucks a month. Sure I have to buy new core books once every 6 to 10 years. I even buy many of the supplaments and buy other game products (Burning Wheel, Savage Lands, WoD, ect. . .), but y cost re still far lower than many of friends pay for a hobby. I am not saying that I like everything about 4th ed. or that 3.5 was broken. I am not even saying you need to give it a chance. I just think we need to accept the idea that our hobby is a business and that is good thing. We have a wide array of products to choose from that woudl not be out there is money was not being made.
Meek75
Gotta side with earlier comments...
Personally, I gotta side with earlier comments regarding the product of 4th Edition.
3e rolled out in what, 2000? AD&D rolled out when? Mid 80's? We got 3.5 only a couple years after 3rd, which warrented a whole new slew of those same core books.
As a player, AD&D was too massive for me to get into really, whereas 3rd was fresh then and is fairly modular now. I can read a 3.5 book and see a huge majority of self-contained references, and that which isn't ususally references one of three books, the Core. Whereas I have a shelf full of 2nd edition titles I bought off a customer of mine and find references to books I've never even heard of, and I have multiple copies and printings of the core 2nd edition books also on the shelf.
To top it all off, folks are still supporting 3.5. When the change over happened between 2nd and 3rd, the choices were: Use old material, totally change systems, or adopt. Most, even after making noise, adopted. Guess what; we don't have to adopt right now. I can write 3rd edition material; you can write, publishers can write, it doesn't matter!
As a system, 4th is pretty cool. As the newest generation of D&D, eh. As a product, its frustrating.
~Nate Petersen, daMoose
Neo Productions Unlimited (http://www.neoproductions.net) - Supernatural suspense, horror, and action await the unwary in Shadowglade (http://www.facebook.com/Shadowglade)!
Moneymaking book vs making money with books
Making money through improvement of an already existing game (instead of scratch building a haf-new one) and telling new, exciting stories that enforce and make it bigger and better is also possible. But it demands for a deeper creative effort. Your golfing friend would also complain if his favorite golf course changed half the gaming rules that made it mandatory to buy a new, different set of sticks every 5 years. Oh, well, yes, there's the old field still there, but we are not going to mown the lawn anymore. Maybe somebody is... And you can always go to another golf course, sure: nobody is MAKING you play here...
May your steps drive you through the roads of Fantasy and Love KalEl el Vigilante - Marcos Muñoz